India can leapfrog thanks to the tech revolution

S. Krishnan, Secretary (Electronics & Information Technology), MeitY, talks to Thomas George, Sunil Rajguru, and Shubhendu Parth on a host of issues, from DPDP to Industry 4.0’s impact on self-reliance in semiconductors to the responsibility of social media platforms and AI. He shares a candid and compelling view on many crucial questions.

What’s your reckoning of the DPDP regulatory move? Are you satisfied with its progress? What implications will it have on compliance in India Inc.?

As you’re aware, the DPDP Act was enacted in August. The Parliament has enacted it. It has also secured the consent of the President. Now, we are at the stage where rules are being drafted. There are several sections —in fact, almost 88 sections for which rules have to be drafted. The process of drafting of the rules is nearing completion. Thereafter, we will have internal consultations; and post that, it will be put out for public consultations. Now, the Act itself has a provision saying that now any rules under the Act, the draft has to be published and consultations held before they are finalised. So, to that extent, the industry and others will get adequate opportunity to represent on the draft. There will be adequate stakeholder consultation on this aspect. So, I think there is no reason to get very concerned about these aspects. On the second element—as far as industry is concerned, this is a very positive provision for them. Different sections of the Act can be brought into force on different dates. That, then means that based on industry consultation, and based on their level of preparedness, the Government can give more time, where there are genuine difficulties to comply with any provision immediately.

We intend to remove difficulties and ensure the balance of interests on both sides.

The Act, itself, is very important from a personal data protection angle. All of us, as citizens, you and I, will also benefit. The main feature fundamentally is that there’s a formal process of consent, and that your data cannot be taken without your consent. The other part of it also is about how long the data can be kept. Once the need for the data is over, they’ll have to get rid of it. That’s what is called as the ‘right to forget’. So that I think for individuals and for citizens, there’s a lot of positive protection.

Another important development is around the Indian semiconductor vision. That’s something that we have been trying since the 1980s and 1990s and we always seem to miss the bus. So, what is the latest on that and can we finally become a self-sufficient nation?

Becoming a self-sufficient nation may take some time because our demand is going to be very large. Let us be clear that we are the most populous country – and chips are becoming part of almost any kind of device that we use –including lights and fans and everything which now carries a semiconductor chip. And especially if we start using electric vehicles, the number of chips there will also increase. So the demand for semiconductor chips in India is going to be very large. One shouldn’t take a very ambitious projection saying that we will be able to establish complete self-sufficiency. Production of semiconductors also includes specialised applications, ranging from being mass produced to specifics for complex electronics and niche areas.

So, in that situation, I think it may not be realistic to expect that all our requirements will be produced domestically. What we may be doing is that in certain kinds of chips, we will be exporting and in certain kinds, we will be importing. That’s why it’s called the global value chain. The value chain extends across different countries, but you must ensure that there is resilience in the value chain and you shouldn’t be reliant on just one source for what you require. You should have a multiplicity of sources – at least two or three sources – so that if one fails you have another one. So, what we should target is to establish a reliant and robust supply chain that will not get disrupted. And we must have a substantial production capacity within the country. It is also important to note that globally no country fully manufactures all components of complex electronics. At most only 40 to 45 percent value addition takes place in any one country in the case of complex electronics.

The government has also taken several steps to promote sensor-based technologies. With the pandemic, we saw a lot of digitalisation happening in the industry. Industry 4.0 has not really taken off in India. Any thoughts?

MeitY alone is not the only agency which is responsible for Industry 4.0. We are looking at various emerging technologies, and Industry 4.0 primarily relates to the manufacturing industry. So a number of other entities in the government of India are also focusing on that, along with many state governments. The challenge, at least, in the Indian context with Industry 4.0 is the need for a lot of retrofitting. Also, many new factories are coming up which adopt Industry 4.0 (what are called Lighthouse factories). Now, retrofitting is a slightly more challenging issue, because it has costs involved. It depends on the demonstration of the benefits to the industry. Because fundamentally, it’s in the manufacturing industry, and they should see cost advantages in actually doing this. So the point is that we can make sure that the skilling is done, and the technology is made available. We are doing that through a number of our centers of excellence. Beyond that the actual investment is something the private sector needs to do for realising the benefits of this paradigm.

We are curious about generative AI. Is it the flavor of the season? Are people using it? Any views from your side?

It is good as long as it doesn’t do any harm. There’s an issue with deep fakes. Clearly, that’s problematic. And even in the US, they have an issue with deep fakes. So everybody across the world has an issue with wrong use of AI when it creates user-harm. We’re very clear that we have to take action and look at it differently. But in addition to large language models, AI and other things can also be used for a lot of scientific models. The possibility of using them in scientific models is huge. And that can actually generate huge productivity gains in a lot of those key areas.

Has there been any thought process in terms of the ethical use of AI?

We are concerned on facets like deep fakes and everything else. Till such time that the Digital India Act is out – the existing provisions will apply through those rules. And otherwise, if it’s unlawful activity, then naturally we have to take apt action.

Can you share something about the notice given to some of the social media platforms on child pornography? I believe Twitter has already responded. So has any action being taken?

I think the important thing you need to understand that it’s not a notice. What they’ve been told is under provisions of the IT Act. The Safe Harbor is subject to certain conditions. One of the conditions there is that they have to exercise due diligence and ensure that no harmful content is carried etc., and they’re not violating any law. So what we brought to the notice is that: don’t take your Safe Harbor for granted. If someone doesn’t exercise adequate due diligence, and doesn’t ensure that some content is completely removed, that platform could be falling foul of the law. And we are putting it on notice that we expect it to carry out due diligence. And if we find any such occurrence, then it may be liable for action. A platform or company, then, can become liable, saying after this date, if something is found, it may be liable as an intermediary, because this is something we don’t have any cut-off date for.

The point here is very simple – that they have a responsibility for due diligence. One can’t wash one’s hands off saying I have no idea what’s being put on the platform. If the platform is told that have to take care – it has to find other ways. If a platform can find out when I am typing something – as to what I want to say next or what I want next – then, I guess the system is sentient enough to realise the factors we are concerned about. If these platforms are as advanced in that technology, as they claim, then they should put in place technology to implement this. That’s it. So they’ve been told they need to do it. If they fail to do it. And if something is found, then they will be liable under law.

Let’s talk about skill development. Is there anything on the roadmap for the next 25 years, because we will see very advanced technologies coming soon?

It’s an important area that we will be working on, especially for, the New-Age skills and the use of emerging technology. So that is certainly something we’ll be working on. Now, whether the 25-year timeframe can be planned on in this sector – that’s tough. How do you anticipate 25 years from now – what will be the requirement then? Because I think we have to be more nimble than that. I think, fundamentally, we have to have a mindset where there is a requirement, then you should be able to quickly ramp up the infrastructure to do what is required. And technology permits it. Basically, we need people to be trained well in the basics, and the ability to learn for themselves. And that’s where the new education and foundation level have to be strong. And you must have a mechanism by which you can be rescaled or retrained quickly, if a new technology is developed. We have to make sure that infrastructure is in place.

Will that include collaboration with the education institutions?

Yes, in fact, under the AI mission, a number of the Centers of Excellence will be established and coordinated by the higher education. So we are collaborating across a wide spectrum.

Before we sign off, we are proud to share that Dataquest recently completed 40 years, and one of our focus areas this year is India’s Mission 2047. We have been asking the industry about whether we can be an economic and tech superpower by 2047. Your take?

I think the Prime Minister’s vision on this is very clear. You are looking at India as a strong nation by 2047. And one of the ways – or possibly the only way – in which it can actually happen is through application of technology. I was on a panel discussion with the first deputy managing director of the IMF, Gita Gopinath. The IMF, and agencies like that, are looking at the potential of AI as something that’s equal to almost the industrial revolution of the 18th century. So if it is on that scale, then the point there is simple – Just like most Western countries benefited from the industrial revolution at that time, we should benefit from a similar revolution – the technology revolution – this time. And that gives us the opportunity to actually ‘leapfrog’. If you look at areas like 5G, we are now almost at par with global standards. It’s not as if we are takers of technology, we are part of that game. So actually, if we have to make it as a developed country in 2047, you have to vide technology. There is no other way.

maildqindia@cybermedia.co.in